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WindroseWhich, again, has little to do with the resolution.
pvvniSee above.
WindroseWhat you are saying is "I assume they have a canvas of at least 960 pixels width". That has less to do with resolution than you think.
pvvniProvide me an example where someone's resolution doesn't determine the minimum width that the page will be viewed in.
pvvniAn example that is not, as I've said before, an outliser.
WindroseI think not. However, I can repeat: it has LITTLE to do with the resolution. If you set a with of 2000px then, even on an 800px wide screen, the canvas will be 2000px. They are not related. Thinking in terms of resolution is a fallacy - unless you are in kiosk mode, and not even then.
iAmStewartdownloading like all of the KDE libs just for one KDE based app -___- bah
WindroseIf you want to show the ENTIRE design, however, it is the CANVAS which matters - and you can't say anything more about a canvas than that, on a 1024 resolution, it will be LESS than that - somewhere. How much less is nearly impossible to say.
racetam_Someone with 1920px width may want two browser windows side-by-side - or a word processor, movie, etc.
racetam_However I do agree 960px is just fine and the "outliers" have already learned to adapt
Windroseracetam_: as long as you don't mind the 'outliers' being groups with accessibility difficulty and the increasingly popular mobile devices ....
racetam_That's why I think web sites should avoid using words. I don't want to discriminate against the illiterate market.
racetam_Unfortunately, text is inaccessible to some people, and images cost mobile users money, so I have to advise against both :)
WindroseWell, when tossing strawmen, why not toss several.
StephanieI prefer tossing snow. We have plenty.
racetam_More seriously, no design is ideal at the full spectrum between tiny and huge
racetam_So it makes sense to cater to the majority, then do a second design if it's worth it
racetam_even looks goofy at 480x320
puffAnybody here work with podcasts,rss, itunes?  I have an RSS that isn't working in itunes.
puffUnfortunately, I have to pm the url, there's a bidness guy involved who likes to google.
mahen23i have been looking at some portfolios of web design groups
mahen23there are a lot
mahen23looks like the market of Web design/development is saturated in USA
mahen23how do you do it guys?
ATANBeat them off with a stick.
iAmStewartquality > quantity
ATANDo it better or do it cheaper... and you win.
ATANObviously doing it cheaper is not the best option if you want food on the table.
mahen23so the market is really saturated.....
PowerPani want to make some input fields with a label
PowerPanthe label text should stand over the input field
PowerPanyou can see an example at
PowerPani don't know how to do this
Dorward_PowerPan: <label for="...">...</label><br><input id="...">
PowerPanno the text should stand in front of the input field
Dorward_PowerPan: Oh. Err. See
qFoxanyone know why safari 4.04win would ignore Last-Modified headers, which are accepted by firefox?
qFoxand/or how to fix it
eirikbqFox: Safari sends last-modified-since but ignores the reply? oO
qFoxother way round..
eirikbThe one that has the cache is the client, the one controlling it own cache is the client, how can it be any other way?
qFoxphp sends the last-modified headers and the client should, uppon the next request of the same resource, send a if-modified-since
qFox(sorry, not other way around)
eirikbIf the client should use its own cache feature is probably up to the client itself?
qFoxeirikb> my answer should've been "it doesnt send it at all".
qFoxmy problem and confusion is that it does respond properly to the ones sent by apache. eg. it will cache images etc fine and send the ims
eirikbqFox: Well I don't know. Maybe it understand it's PHP and don't bother? Since PHP is originally dynamical
qFoxhmmm. it could parse X-powered-by header, but i doubt that...?
qFoxother than that, the request looks like a regular file.
qFoxnothing php-ish
qFoxits a long shot, but i'll try to prevent the powered by header and see what happens
eirikbqFox: ?
eirikbqFox: ?
_Moe_is it normal that a div: <div><img...</div> is slightly larger than the img in it? I am getting this annoying behaviour.. is there somthing I am missing.. shouldn't it just wrap the img exactly ?
qFox_Moe_> removed padding, margin and border?
qFoxeirikb> looking at them
_Moe_qFox: yes.. I think it might have to do with setting font-size on an outer div.. because setting font-size:0 on that div removes it..
_Moe_but that is very strange still.. I should be able to do that..
qFoxtarget browser?
qFoxyeah then it shouldnt happen.
_Moe_I am floating the div left btw.. could you try that
qFoxdo you have a testcase?
_Moe_unfortantly I am having trouble sharing my ip..
eirikbSharing your IP?
eirikbIf you are behind NAT then just use reverse SSH tunnelig to a remote server
_Moe_well.. it would be allot easier if he could see the page in action.. rather than me posting it on a pastebin
_Moe_hmm.. try this:
_Moe_it doesn't work for me thoguh... what do you mean reverse ssh ?
eirikbssh -R 8000:localhost:8080
_Moe_is that possible with putty ( unfortantly I am on windows now)
eirikbMaybe, haven't used windows in 4 years
eirikbBut if is your actual IP, you don't need to, since it's reachable
eirikbBut since it seems to run CentOS, and you say you use Windows I guess it's not
_Moe_are you able to ping the ip succesfully?
_Moe_are you able to reach 8080 ?
eirikbOr not ping
eirikbBut nmap :)
eirikbI guess it's blocking ICMP
_Moe_yeah.. that's pretty crappy.. can I get around that some way ?
eirikbYes, by setting NAT settings to forward port 8080 to your computer, or use reverse ssh tunnel
_Moe_that's not in my hands... I am using kind of mobile internet from a telecom provider
eirikbThen ssh will do the trick
_Moe_now I just need to figure out how to do it with putty
eirikbGoogle it
eirikbFirst: Do you have a remote server with sshd?
_Moe_i have a server where the site is running.. is that what you mean?
eirikbCan you SSH to it?
eirikbCan't you just put your stuff up to that server to show us in the first place? :)
_Moe_no.. because i've made changes and it's those that needs a look..
eirikbYou don't have dev mode on the server?
eirikbI don't do that either, I always keep dev and test envirments local and only through mercurial, and prod on servers. But then again, I can setup a reverse ssh tunnel in 3 secs :)
_Moe_the ssh reverse.. could you explain what I need to do.. go in to server and do what?
_Moe_and then from my computer do what?
eirikbYou don't go into the server. From your local computer you establish the connection to the server. Then there will be a reverse tunnel between the server and your computer. Then ssh will establish a listening socket on the remote server (specified port), so when someone connect to that port they will be forwarded to your local computer on a specified port there (could be the same, could be different, does
eirikbnot matter)
_Moe_ok.. i will try that..
Kingsy101can someone in here help me with a IE6 css issue? or it seems to be that.. I havnt had any luck in #css so I thought I would ask in here see if someone had the browser on their pc and had a little spare time
Gothfuncwho knows unless you ask? ;o
eirikb~ask to as
Kingsy101:) <--- it requires a username/password so use css/css
Kingsy101you can see the bar in IE6 is totally messed up (its height changes to the height of the button the rollover and the dropdown menu)
Kingsy101but it renders fine in all other browsers..
Kingsy101any ideas why?
Gothfuncthe menu at the top right is messed up in google chrome
Kingsy101also sorry about the server speed, its a dev server so its not too fast.. but its CHEAP :)
Kingsy101Gothfunc - yea just ignore that menu, I havnt styled it for any browser yet
Gothfuncah ye
Kingsy101I am talking about the UNDER the header but above the main content
WindroseKingsy101: you have 15 errors, some of them likely to impact on rendering (duplicate IDs, for example). I suggest you fix those first.
Kingsy10115 errors? xhtml validation?
WindroseKingsy101: validation, yes.
Kingsy101cool I will do :) good place to start
Kingsy101Windrose - you still around?
Kingsy101Gothfunc - or you?
Kingsy101I have made my page xhtml strict, the problem is still there but at least I don't have xhtml errors that could be causing it
GothfuncKingsy101: i don't have ie6 on this machine, on linux
Kingsy101anyone else?
Action: Windrose is on vacation and doesn't have her lab, so no IE.
Kingsy101:) np
Gothfunchm, when i return from paypal to my site the session expires and i have to login again.  is there a cure for this?  having trouble finding answers on google
DorwardGothfunc: Find out why the session is expiring. We don't know what rules it uses to track the session.
GothfuncDorward: i'm not really sure how to do that...
DorwardGothfunc: Look at the code that handles the sessions. Read the manual if it is a third party solution.
GothfuncDorward: using cakephp.  ok, but i'm still not exactly sure what i'm looking for.  are you trying to say find out how long till the session expires?
Gothfunccause i click buy now, then immediately return to the site and i have to login again
DorwardGothfunc: If the session is expiring because the user goes to paypal and then comes back, either the session time is insanely short, or there are other rules in play (such as expiring a session if the referer is from a different site).
Gothfunchmm i see
Gothfuncok i'll check that out, thanks dorward :)
WindroseGothfunc: best bet is asking paypal tho.
DorwardProbably nothing to do with paypal.
WindroseDorward: oh, I dunno. Anything involving that name which go wrong is reasonably their fault ;)
GothfuncDorward: so if session.referer_check is set, it'll invalidate the session when you leave the site and come back?
_Moe_I finally got the reason to why things where behaving as they were...
DorwardGothfunc: I don't know. I haven't touched PHP sessions in almost a decade, and I've never used CakePHP.
_Moe_this was my original question: is it normal that a div: <div><img...</div> is slightly larger than the img in it? I am getting this annoying behaviour.. is there somthing I am missing.. shouldn't it just wrap the img exactly ?
_Moe_the answer is due to the top <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "">
GothfuncDorward: ok no worries, this has been a good step forward :)
_Moe_if I remove that part then that's resolved.. I am just to scared to remove it now
Dorward_Moe_: Images are inline content. By default, they are vertically-aligned on the line of text. There is space below them for the descdenders you find on letters like g, y, j, and p.
_Moe_Dorward.. but is there any decenders here ?
_Moe_what letters, and how do I avoid this behaviour
Dorward_Moe_: The space is always provided. Otherwise you have uneven line heights.
_Moe_can I get around this ? because IE doesn't do this..
Dorward_Moe_: Well ... if the _default_ vertical-alignment isn't to your pleasing then ... ?
deltabremove all the text from the line
deltabincluding the spaces
deltabthough if there's another way I'd like to hear it
_Moe_deltab: I did that.. doesn't help... Dorward: thanks.. align='top' did the trick... although it is very misleading.. the align should not have to do with the content ... thanks for helping out
DorwardIf the alignment doesn't align the content ... what should it align?
deltabhow could it not? it's about aligning the content
DorwardAnd use CSS for presentation.
deltab_Moe_: so did the descender space disappear entirely, or did you just move it to the bottom?
deltabhmm, I realise now the second part of that is meaningless
deltabso, thank you
_Moe_deltab: I don't know.. it seems as if the descenders where suddenly gone
preinheimerI've got a table (actually showing tabular data, please don't kill me) as the left sidebar at: I can't figure out why there's such a large gap between the cell background colour, and the table's right side
OmnipotentSay, assuming I am an internet company/provider, is there a way to track a single email and see how many people get it?
nkuttlerOmnipotent: your server logs can tell you if they were delivered, but that doesn't mean it arrives in the receiver's inbox
preinheimerdefine "Get it"
WindroseNo. You can track how many delivery points accept it, but nothing beyong that.
Omnipotentpreinheimer - how many people read it
preinheimeryou can do crap like put an image in the email that loads off a server, but even then people with that crap disabled wont show up
nkuttlerOmnipotent: no way to track that. you can use html mails with images etc, but that's not reliable
Omnipotentnkuttler - so all these "xyz company tracks this mail and will give you 1$ for every mail you send" is crap right?
WindroseOmnipotent: pure swindel.
OmnipotentThank you.
preinheimerSeriously, that entire conversation was initiated by some spam crap?
preinheimerI feel kind of let down to be honest.
Omnipotentpreinheimer - xD
WindroseWell, we do offer a full money back guarantee if you are not satisfied with the channel .... :)
preinheimerheh, I asked a stupid question an hour ago, still waiting on that one :)
nkuttlerpreinheimer: i'd start by checking what those reset css styles do to tables
preinheimerreset css styles?
Windrosepreinheimer: from the description there might be some padding/border/cellspacing issues.
preinheimerWindrose: I'm with you that far
pytherWhy does td work and not th in this code sample: ? What is the difference between td and th?
Windrosepyther: not 'work'? One is a table cell, one is a table header.
pytherWindrose, so a table header is not a table cell?
DorwardOne is a data cell the other is a header cell. Both are table cells.
Windrosepyther: now you're getting philosophical :) Yes. It's a specific type of table cell.
pytherso in theory I should be able to use <th> instead of <td> correct?
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