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shaggy-hmost of the stuff I like to work on absolutely requires primitives though
jwzrdHmm, in what way?
shaggy-hwhich makes me a bit reluctant to jump in to scala... I'm sure I'll like the language
shaggy-hmemory and performance
jwzrdBecause... scalac does eliminate boxing fairly good
jwzrdIt would be interesting to see a benchmark comparison of something mildly real from your domain
shaggy-hmaybe... feel free to port if you like :)
shaggy-hbut workwise, performance is tricky even with java
jwzrdWell as if I know for real :)
shaggy-hin-memory compression is awkward/annoying without unsigned primitives for example
jwzrdah, definitely
shaggy-hthat's why I asked you about scala + webapps... that's a different and more suitable domain for scala imho
shaggy-hat least, until the vm can eliminate boxing altogether
jwzrdfrom what I've read, it can
jwzrdSo long as you don't let the boxed objects escape and all that
shaggy-honly in some limited situations
shaggy-hyes, escape analysis
jwzrdyes, but not in the HotSpot sense
jwzrdWell, actually, in the same sense. But at compilation
shaggy-hbut anything Collection related is going to be problematic until we get reified generics
shaggy-hsame is true for java there of course
shaggy-hbut at least it's possible to roll your own replacements in javaland
jwzrdAfaik there's that either already in Scala or on it's way
jwzrdWith @specialized
jwzrdSo you
jxavaSo you are good for the economy.
jwzrdSo you'd: class Bonk[A] @specialized { val a: A = _ }
jwzrdOr somesuch
shaggy-hhow tf does that work?
shaggy-hunder the hood I mean
shaggy-hcompiler must generate a whole new class I guess
jwzrdscalac already generates N^M special crapola under the hood
shaggy-h"The new @specialized annotation fixes this problem by causing scala to generate different versions of the user-specified generic type or method for each of the primitive types."
jwzrdIs that already in? 2.8?
jwzrdIf you had time though it'd be really nice to see some comparisons
jwzrdTake a look at how break is implemented :)
shaggy-hdoubt I'd ever get time to port any of our nastiness, but as long as I'm aware what's happening under the hood and it's doing all the right stuff, I'd be happy
shaggy-hsounds like they're on the right path at least
shaggy-hheh, as a library method :)
jwzrd"Doug Lea wants to work with the team on concurrency data structures. The lack of closures in Java makes this effort difficult in Java."
jwzrdYes :)
jwzrdLook in Breaks.break
jwzrdCan't recall where that bastard is
shaggy-htf do I find that?
shaggy-htf do I find that? :)
shaggy-hnm, got it
jwzrddef break { throw breakException }
shaggy-hthat's ok though, the breakException isn't created each time
shaggy-hso still cheap
jwzrdAHh, I see that naow
jwzrdBut isn't throwing mildly expensive anyway with rummaging through stack framen?
jwzrdnah, no
shaggy-hnot free, but nowhere as bad as building the stacktrace
shaggy-hstill, that's a pretty filthy hack ;)
shaggy-hI think the cost comes in not rummaging the stack frames, but rummaging to find a suitable catch clause
shaggy-hgiven it would always be in the current method in this case, it's not such a problem
shaggy-hbut if you popped up N methods, you'd have to rummage N times
jwzrdyes yes
jxavajwzrd: but but ... ?
reverendi'd just like to say fuck jsf 1.1
shaggy-hyou're 0.1 too late
jwzrdfuck jsf.
jwzrdIt's the dumbest fucking joke of an idea ever and... that's saying something
_Tenchi_who needs jsf when you have php??
reverendjsf is such utter shit
reverendi can't believe we're doing this project in jsf
reverendi want out
jwzrdIt's stupid as fuck
jwzrdAnd sersiously does not add anything to JSP and say jquery
reverendwrap it up in weblogic portal and you're fucking fucked like a fuck
jwzrdslang fuck
jxavafuck (1 of 20): 1. The universally recognized "F word"
_Tenchi_are you using weblogic v8 ?
reverendfuck no, 10.2
_Tenchi_then why are you using ancient jsf ?
reverendbecause that's the only version officially supported with WLP 10.2
_Tenchi_dealing with a bunch of struts tars?
_Tenchi_that's, sad
reverendthey include myfaces and 1.2 RI but they are not supported within portlets
jwzrd_Tenchi_: this is how it works. If you use JSF, you don't get to take a piss at others that do
jwzrdAHhaha you use portlets too
_Tenchi_reverend: wait, JSF 1.2 added stuff to make portlets work
reverendyes, the fail runs deeper than your mum's ass crevice
_Tenchi_kind of doesnt make sense
reverendunfortunately, we had started implementing with myfaces
_Tenchi_myfaceds is officially supported?
reverendand we were encountering... 'odd' behavior
reverendand then found this whitepaper
reverendwhere it says 'do not use anything but RI 1.1' and 'oh by the way, RI 1.1 isn't the default'
reverendanyway, it's way, way, way too late to do anything but try to finish eating this shit sandwich
_Tenchi_reverend: the whitepaper has abunch of stuff about supporting 1.2
_Tenchi_hehe, this whitepaper has the most uses of the term "unfortunately" i've ever seen in a whitepaper haha
reverendCaution: The steps above actually create a project with an unsupported configuration, but it will
reverendsuffice for this specific example. For the full procedure for configuring a JSF application in a
reverendsupported configuration, consult the .Configuration. chapter.
reverendlook at the chart in section 4.1
reverendsupported, with caveats
_Tenchi_right, what are the caveats?
_Tenchi_client-side state saving dosnt work?
_Tenchi_should use client side state saving anyway
_Tenchi_at least not with any jsf impls i've seen hehe
reverendthe caveat is that we're using beehive pageflow
_Tenchi_apache should just be completely shutout of some things
reverendit's a mess
shaggy-h"There are some caveats, but overall it offers solid support"
Action: shaggy-h can't see what the problem is
shaggy-hsounds solid to me
shaggy-hhaha that paper's funny
shaggy-hwell for me anyway, not having to deal with it :)
jwzrdHow can someone ever want to use something like that? How did the thought processes go?
_Tenchi_but yeah, jsf 1.2 + beehive is a no no
_Tenchi_for anything
reverendjwzrd: that, in itself is also rage inducing
jwzrdreverend: srsly
reverendthe reasoning that went into this architecture
reverendi also wasn't involved at that point
reverendthe customer defined the architecture and the people my employer put on the team were not smart enough to question it
reverendfirst i heard was 'oh, everything's fucked, we need you to lend a helping hand and get things going'
_Tenchi_i know from lots of experience there's no way to say "trash the entire architecture" and retain any political capital
reverendtoo late for that
reverendalthough we have an extensive retrospective planned
reverendin the meantime we have to belly up to the feces buffet and pile our plates high
_Tenchi_shitty nights sleep--
--- Sat Nov 28 2009
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