| marioxcc | but is counter-intuitive on some major modes |
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| marioxcc | in lisp, for example, it appears to follow no pattern |
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| marioxcc | :S |
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| twb | marioxcc: in lisp you should use C-M-x instead of M-x; the former is sexpr-wise |
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| parolang | marioxcc: I think M-a and M-e look for sentences as long as the sentences end with two spaces following the punctuation. |
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| marioxcc | hmm |
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| marioxcc | ok |
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| parolang | I don't know if lisp mode changes this. |
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| marioxcc | twb: I tryed, but they are strage anyway |
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| marioxcc | just maybe I'm damn too stupid |
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| parolang | I think they usually try to preserve text-mode settings in programming modes for editing comments. |
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| marioxcc | ok :) |
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| parolang | It's actually a nice convention, IMHO, to end sentences with two spaces, and I've used that consistently. This helps the editor distinguish between periods that end sentences from periods that end abbreviations. |
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| marioxcc | yeah, yeah |
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| marioxcc | i use that in text-mode |
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| marioxcc | but in programming modes i found M-a and M-e counterintuitive |
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| twb | I don't use either of those chords at all. |
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| marioxcc | haha |
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| twb | parolang: I believe two-spaces-end-sentences is a customizable option |
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| parolang | marioxcc: Like I said, use it within comments or doc strings. |
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| twb | parolang: I also believe M-q auto-detects by default |
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| marioxcc | parolang: oh, ok |
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| parolang | twb: Yeah, it is. I struggled with it once when I was trying to format an ebook. |
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| parolang | The ebook, of course, didn't respect the convention. |
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| bpalmer | If you're careful to consistently use entities, your abbreviations will be clear. |
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| marioxcc | twb: M-q is veru usefull, i use it very often |
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| marioxcc | maybe 150 times a day |
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| bpalmer | let's embed our code on the web. |
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| twb | bpalmer: maybe we're using XML, so named entities are passé |
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| marioxcc | passé? |
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| twb | marioxcc: christ, man, get a dictionary |
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| parolang | bpalmer: What about "Mr. and Mrs. Smith"? Do you want a npsp on either side of the "and"? |
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| bpalmer | parolang: I don't believe they should be together. |
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| parolang | I understand Mrs. Smith. |
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| marioxcc | twb: sorry for the mispelling |
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| twb | parolang: I think it's safe to say that conventions for fixed-width, ragged right, and justified text are different. |
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| bpalmer | They keep secrets from one another, after all. |
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| marioxcc | is about midnight and my fingers are a bit tired |
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| parolang | heh |
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| marioxcc | :( |
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| parolang | twb: Well...I was thinking of plain text documents, but I think there's a code in unicode somewhere. |
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| twb | parolang: there is. |
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| twb | Since Emacs renders it differently, I find it EXTREMELY annoying when I encounter it in web pages or pastebins or docbook output |
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| bpalmer | it's not guaranteed to be predefined in standard xml, however. |
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| twb | Oh, and ESPECIALLY in emaails |
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| twb | Some email clients will try to force double-spaced sentence endings by changing one of the two spaces to an nbsp |
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| twb | bpalmer: the codepoint is, though |
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| twb | bpalmer: assuming you don't change the encoding |
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| legumbre | ? |
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| twb | So they would write something like "Good morning. I have a large banana." |
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|
|
| parolang | Hmm...my emacs renders that as a different-colored underscore. |
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| twb | Or "if x:^J print x" when they want to pretend that code isn't <PRE> |
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| bpalmer | bananas are apparently an endangered fruit. |
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| twb | bpalmer: due to overfishing? |
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| bpalmer | blight, rather. |
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| bpalmer | Bananas being identical clones of one another. |
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| bpalmer | (Why couldn't episode III have been about the perils of a clone army exposed to disease? Much more interesting than a trade war) |
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| twb | Maybe he was fucking an economist at the time |
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| proq | at least the plot didn't spiral into one ridiculous premise on top of another *cough* *lost* |
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| jlf` | too soon! |
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| twb | I haven't actually watched II or III |
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| twb | ep. I was so cringable that I couldn't stomach the idea |
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| proq | #1 is not worth watching but #2 is |
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| twb | Anyone watch I would get the impression that there were about twenty people in the universe, and they constantly interacted |
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| proq | likewise with lost |
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| proq | or were you talking about lost? |
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| jlf` | what this channel needs is some vuvuzelas |
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| proq | ugh, flash needs to die |
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| Action: jlf` suspects that proq may be ming the merciless irl |
| proq | now even my browser's music service uses flash. so my would-be-fast laptop is now overheating |
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| proq | time to find something better than blip.fm I guess |
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| twb | proq: is HTML5 a lot better? |
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| twb | At least I can opt out of flash easily, by not installing it |
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| proq | twb: hmm.. let me check |
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| twb | But to remove gstreamer and HTML5 video from my browser, I have to recompile webkit, and that takes about six hours even on a quad-core 8GB RAM system |
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| wgreenhouse | twb: part of the reason flash sucks so bad for video is that video streaming was never what it was meant to be doing, so HTML5 video would have to be really lousy not to be an improvement on it |
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| twb | wgreenhouse: granted. |
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| jbms | wgreenhouse: Eh, Flash does have a bunch of stuff specifically for video |
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| twb | My point was that video in a browser is usually bandwidth-wasting, attention-wasting wank. Because flash sucks so hard, it's easier to avoid it than html5 |
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| jbms | wgreenhouse: Primarily, stuff for obfuscation |
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| twb | And if I do need the video, I can usually just the URL and call mplayer on it. |
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| jbms | I would say that in almost all cases, there is no need for visually embedding video into a webpage --- that a static image link that launches the video in a separate window/fullscreen would be sufficient |
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| jbms | An exception might be something that tries to e.g. synchronize a set of presentation slides with the video |
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| twb | jbms: for me, it would be fucking IDEAL |
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| jbms | well, you can scrape and then do that |
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| jbms | have you seen get_flash_videos, btw? |
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| jbms | it is one of the best such scripts I've seen so far |
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| twb | No, but there are about eighty versions of that |
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| twb | I use youtube maybe once a quarter, so I don't care about doing it well |
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| jbms | it's designed to be somewhat modular and support a large number of different sites |
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| twb | Meh |
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| proq | twb: I'm not getting any speed difference between html5 and flash with youtube on safari 5. *but* during this little test, firefox is using between 2x-5x the CPU events shown in TOP. looks like firefox is part of the problem on my end |
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| twb | I remember the last video I viewed was some guy who had written an a11y phone app to do speech recognition and synthesis. |
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| twb | proq: last time I looked, firefox with flash and java and no .mozilla at all, opening about:blank, consumed 700MB of RAM immediately. |
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| proq | yeah, and to think mozilla was even worse back in the day! |
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| twb | That's the kind of laughability that makes me use webkit and opera as my fallback browsers |
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| proq | or maybe firefox has caught up apopos bloatage |
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| proq | *apropos |
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| jbms | HTML5 will probably fail because due to patent reasons browser vendors will never be able to just integrate an existing video framework that works, like mplayer/ffmpeg/vlc, and instead will reinvent the wheel with some crap that doesn't support much |
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| jbms | hopefully mozilla will include a build option for just using ffmpeg or something, even if they don't enable it for their own provided builds |
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| proq | I also noticed that running gmail in my browser is a sizeable part of the problem |
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| proq | if we can play high-performance 3D games in the browser, there's no reason why we need flash to have a decent video player |
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| srbaker | GAR |
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| srbaker | i *so* hate working with xml |
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| twb | proq: if you're playing games in a browser, something has gone horribly wrong |
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| twb | It's as retarded as a flight simulator in a spreadsheet |
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| proq | twb: I'm not, just making a point |
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| twb | jbms: well, webkit just uses gstreamer, so Ubuntu users will just do their normal "give me MP3" dance, and they'll have codecs for everything |
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| proq | I haven't had time for games |
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| jbms | Is gstreamer as good as vlc? |
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| twb | gstreamer is from gnome, so I'm assuming it's crap |
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| twb | I don't run vlc because they seem less "just fucking work" and more "support OS X and Windows, too" |
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| proq | xine is good on ubuntu |
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| srbaker | twb: thank you for that! |
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| proq | on os x, I trade off between vlc and quicktime. each handles some formats better |
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| nayankk | Guys, By default 'M-x compile' will start compilation on the directory, where the currently displayed file is stored.. Is there a way to set a default compilation directory, so that compilation will start from this default directory, no matter from where it is invoked/ |
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| Action: jlf` has yet to encounter anything vlc doesn't handle |
| proq | nayankk: M-x compile doesn't use a default directory. it uses the cwd of the file you are editintg |
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| srbaker | jlf: same. although i have found a few movies where it lets the audio get out of sync, that quicktime handles better |
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| jlf` | huh, never noticed that. although there are hotkeys to timeshift the audio in something like 50ms increments for synchronization with the video. |
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| nayankk | proq: Yeah.. Is there a way to tell emacs to start from default directory, rather than the cwd of the file where I edit |
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| nayankk | proq: I mean, lets say I am editing in /home/nayan/WebKit/gtk/webkit, but when I invoke 'M-x compile', I want the compilation to start from /home/nayan.. |
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| jlf` | nayankk: see C-h v compile-command |
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| proq | nayankk: additionaly, you can bind a new compile command such as: (global-set-key (kbd "<f9>") (lambda() (interactive)(compile "make -k blah blah"))) |
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| jlf` | http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100615/NEWS01/306150004/Jesus-statue-destroyed-by-act-of-God |
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| -rudybot:#emacs- http://tinyurl.com/282eg9y |
| wgreenhouse | Zeus did it. |
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| jlf` | zeus weighs in on christianity |
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| jlf` | curse wgreenhouse's fast fingers |
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| wgreenhouse | let's make their holy men have a miracle-off with our holy men |
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| wgreenhouse | and sell tickets |
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| twb | nayankk: you do "make -C ~" |
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| nayankk | proq: jif`: Thanks guys.. |
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| proq | $700,000? I'll replace it for half that |
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| twb | proq: that includes the amphitheatre. |
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| jlf` | guys don't worry it'll raise itself after 3 days |
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| tasslehoff | I used xref before, and a nice feature was the dead code detection. Now I have to pay for xref myself, so I don't use it anymore. Any other packages that provide such niceties? Perhaps something in CEDET/ECB? |
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| twb | valgrind? |
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| twb | Anything emacs-based would be a bit silly |
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| proq | maybe now, but not in emacs 25 |
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| twb | At most, Emacs should just have a UI for valgrind or clang or something |
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| tasslehoff | twb: color me silly then :) I liked the way xref did it :) |
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| legumbre | here's hoping emacs 25 will feature JIT and elisp to iphone exporter |
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| proq | emacs can't have anything to do with iphone until apple complies with GPLv3 terms |
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| proq | aside from editing source code, of course |
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| jlf` | you can do anything at zombo.com^W^W^Win emacs 25. anything at all. |
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| jlf` | yes. |
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| legumbre | maybe the next iphone dev agreement will only allow you to write code with XCode |
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| quotemstr_ | #emacs, what sort of easter egg should I put in Windows? |
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| legumbre | quotemstr_: strace |
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| quotemstr_ | legumbre: Already exists as a sysinternals tool. |
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| proq | legumbre: actually, I've contemplated an elisp to objective C compiler a number of times while using my zaurus |
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| jlf` | quotemstr_: gpl poison pill!! |
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| proq | legumbre: unfortunately, I'm not much of a compiler writer |
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| proq | quotemstr_: you're working on windows? |
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| legumbre | proq: get to it! |
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| proq | quotemstr_: embed emacs into it! |
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| Action: legumbre reads about this sysinternals business |
| proq | legumbre: heh. my zaurus is getting old, so there's not much motivation to make one now |
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| legumbre | proq: you can get an iPad and try it there! |
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| proq | legumbre: try what? |
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| legumbre | proq: the objc code generated by your compiler |
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| quotemstr_ | My Model M gets a first-class ticket. It rides in the front passenger seat where I can make sure it's safe. |
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| proq | actually, my zaurus runs scheme and there are lots of scheme->c compilers out there |
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| quotemstr_ | My diploma, on the other hand, is buried under four or five layers of boxes. |
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| quotemstr_ | Clearly, I have appropriate priorities. |
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| legumbre | proq: yeah, I tried gambit on the iphone |
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| jlf` | they may consider the M as a weapon |
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| quotemstr_ | Since Obj-C is a superset of C, wouldn't it make sense to use one of the existing Lisp-to-C compilers? |
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| legumbre | proq: I couldn't get a repl to the actual device though :( |
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| proq | that's what I said |
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| proq | quotemstr_: ^^ |
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| proq | legumbre: you built emacs for the iPad? |
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| Action: legumbre_ shakes fist at ISP |
| proq | it's probably not that hard to build emacs for the iPad with the latest and greatest cocoa emacs |
|---|
| proq | or just install ubuntu on the iPad :) |
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| wgreenhouse | proq: and then put it in the app store? oh the irony |
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| wgreenhouse | cocoa emacs for the ipad that is |
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| proq | wgreenhouse: no, apple wouldn't approve it. you would have to share it with other means |
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| nak | are there any good emacs books that anyone wants to recommend |
|---|
| proq | either that or you'd have to bribe apple to approve an elisp interpreter |
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| twb | nak: the elisp intro and the emacs manual. |
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| twb | nak: both ship with GNU Emacs, and you can buy dead-tree versions from the FSF. |
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| twb | There is also the gnu and giraffe books from ORA (O'Reilley), but these are several major versions out of date. |
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| proq | while we're on the subject of emacs on iPad, I want a pony :P |
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| legumbre | quotemstr_: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx <-- is this it? |
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| nak | twb: thanks |
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| nak | proq: emacs on the ;/ |
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| lisptastic | Anybody know how to view the source of an elisp function? C-h f doesn't show the file. |
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| pgas | maybe you need to install the source? what does the first line say? |
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| lisptastic | "interactive compiled lisp function" |
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| naeu` | does anyone know how I switch off erc's autofocus behaviour? |
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| pgas | lisptastic: hmm, I don't remember having ever seen this. |
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| jlf` | lisptastic: does M-: (symbol-function 'your-function) return anything useful? |
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| jlf` | after (defun yowza (a) (+ a 4)), (symbol-function 'yowza) => (lambda (a) (+ a 4)) |
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| nak | I tried downloading a color-theme and modifying my .emacs according to the emacswiki, but it didn't work, I replaced it with zenburn and it worked |
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| jlf` | but compiled functions may differ.. |
|---|
| nak | the theme was color-theme-tango |
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| proq | naeu`: autofocus behavior? |
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| nak | :/ |
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