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marioxccbut is counter-intuitive on some major modes
marioxccin lisp, for example, it appears to follow no pattern
twbmarioxcc: in lisp you should use C-M-x instead of M-x; the former is sexpr-wise
parolangmarioxcc: I think M-a and M-e look for sentences as long as the sentences end with two spaces following the punctuation.
parolangI don't know if lisp mode changes this.
marioxcctwb: I tryed, but they are strage anyway
marioxccjust maybe I'm damn too stupid
parolangI think they usually try to preserve text-mode settings in programming modes for editing comments.
marioxccok :)
parolangIt's actually a nice convention, IMHO, to end sentences with two spaces, and I've used that consistently.  This helps the editor distinguish between periods that end sentences from periods that end abbreviations.
marioxccyeah, yeah
marioxcci use that in text-mode
marioxccbut in programming modes i found M-a and M-e counterintuitive
twbI don't use either of those chords at all.
twbparolang: I believe two-spaces-end-sentences is a customizable option
parolangmarioxcc: Like I said, use it within comments or doc strings.
twbparolang: I also believe M-q auto-detects by default
marioxccparolang: oh, ok
parolangtwb: Yeah, it is.  I struggled with it once when I was trying to format an ebook.
parolangThe ebook, of course, didn't respect the convention.
bpalmerIf you're careful to consistently use   entities, your abbreviations will be clear.
marioxcctwb: M-q is veru usefull, i use it very often
marioxccmaybe 150 times a day
bpalmerlet's embed our code on the web.
twbbpalmer: maybe we're using XML, so named entities are passť
twbmarioxcc: christ, man, get a dictionary
parolangbpalmer: What about "Mr. and Mrs. Smith"?  Do you want a npsp on either side of the "and"?
bpalmerparolang: I don't believe they should be together.
parolangI understand Mrs. Smith.
marioxcctwb: sorry for the mispelling
twbparolang: I think it's safe to say that conventions for fixed-width, ragged right, and justified text are different.
bpalmerThey keep secrets from one another, after all.
marioxccis about midnight and my fingers are a bit tired
parolangtwb: Well...I was thinking of plain text documents, but I think there's a   code in unicode somewhere.
twbparolang: there is.
twbSince Emacs renders it differently, I find it EXTREMELY annoying when I encounter it in web pages or pastebins or docbook output
bpalmerit's not guaranteed to be predefined in standard xml, however.
twbOh, and ESPECIALLY in emaails
twbSome email clients will try to force double-spaced sentence endings by changing one of the two spaces to an nbsp
twbbpalmer: the codepoint is, though
twbbpalmer: assuming you don't change the encoding
twbSo they would write something like "Good morning.† I have a large banana." emacs renders that as a different-colored underscore.
twbOr "if x:^J † †print x" when they want to pretend that code isn't <PRE>
bpalmerbananas are apparently an endangered fruit.
twbbpalmer: due to overfishing?
bpalmerblight, rather.
bpalmerBananas being identical clones of one another.
bpalmer(Why couldn't episode III have been about the perils of a clone army exposed to disease? Much more interesting than a trade war)
twbMaybe he was fucking an economist at the time
proqat least the plot didn't spiral into one ridiculous premise on top of another *cough* *lost*
jlf`too soon!
twbI haven't actually watched II or III
twbep. I was so cringable that I couldn't stomach the idea
proq#1 is not worth watching but #2 is
twbAnyone watch I would get the impression that there were about twenty people in the universe, and they constantly interacted
proqlikewise with lost
proqor were you talking about lost?
jlf`what this channel needs is some vuvuzelas
proqugh, flash needs to die
Action: jlf` suspects that proq may be ming the merciless irl
proqnow even my browser's music service uses flash.  so my would-be-fast laptop is now overheating
proqtime to find something better than I guess
twbproq: is HTML5 a lot better?
twbAt least I can opt out of flash easily, by not installing it
proqtwb: hmm.. let me check
twbBut to remove gstreamer and HTML5 video from my browser, I have to recompile webkit, and that takes about six hours even on a quad-core 8GB RAM system
wgreenhousetwb: part of the reason flash sucks so bad for video is that video streaming was never what it was meant to be doing, so HTML5 video would have to be really lousy not to be an improvement on it
twbwgreenhouse: granted.
jbmswgreenhouse: Eh, Flash does have a bunch of stuff specifically for video
twbMy point was that video in a browser is usually bandwidth-wasting, attention-wasting wank.  Because flash sucks so hard, it's easier to avoid it than html5
jbmswgreenhouse: Primarily, stuff for obfuscation
twbAnd if I do need the video, I can usually just the URL and call mplayer on it.
jbmsI would say that in almost all cases, there is no need for visually embedding video into a webpage --- that a static image link that launches the video in a separate window/fullscreen would be sufficient
jbmsAn exception might be something that tries to e.g. synchronize a set of presentation slides with the video
twbjbms: for me, it would be fucking IDEAL
jbmswell, you can scrape and then do that
jbmshave you seen get_flash_videos, btw?
jbmsit is one of the best such scripts I've seen so far
twbNo, but there are about eighty versions of that
twbI use youtube maybe once a quarter, so I don't care about doing it well
jbmsit's designed to be somewhat modular and support a large number of different sites
proqtwb: I'm not getting any speed difference between html5 and flash with youtube on safari 5.  *but* during this little test, firefox is using between 2x-5x the CPU events shown in TOP.  looks like firefox is part of the problem on my end
twbI remember the last video I viewed was some guy who had written an a11y phone app to do speech recognition and synthesis.
twbproq: last time I looked, firefox with flash and java and no .mozilla at all, opening about:blank, consumed 700MB of RAM immediately.
proqyeah, and to think mozilla was even worse back in the day!
twbThat's the kind of laughability that makes me use webkit and opera as my fallback browsers
proqor maybe firefox has caught up apopos bloatage
jbmsHTML5 will probably fail because due to patent reasons browser vendors will never be able to just integrate an existing video framework that works, like mplayer/ffmpeg/vlc, and instead will reinvent the wheel with some crap that doesn't support much
jbmshopefully mozilla will include a build option for just using ffmpeg or something, even if they don't enable it for their own provided builds
proqI also noticed that running gmail in my browser is a sizeable part of the problem
proqif we can play high-performance 3D games in the browser, there's no reason why we need flash to have a decent video player
srbakeri *so* hate working with xml
twbproq: if you're playing games in a browser, something has gone horribly wrong
twbIt's as retarded as a flight simulator in a spreadsheet
proqtwb: I'm not, just making a point
twbjbms: well, webkit just uses gstreamer, so Ubuntu users will just do their normal "give me MP3" dance, and they'll have codecs for everything
proqI haven't had time for games
jbmsIs gstreamer as good as vlc?
twbgstreamer is from gnome, so I'm assuming it's crap
twbI don't run vlc because they seem less "just fucking work" and more "support OS X and Windows, too"
proqxine is good on ubuntu
srbakertwb: thank you for that!
proqon os x, I trade off between vlc and quicktime.  each handles some formats better
nayankkGuys, By default 'M-x compile' will start compilation on the directory, where the currently displayed file is stored.. Is there a way to set a default compilation directory, so that compilation will start from this default directory, no matter from where it is invoked/
Action: jlf` has yet to encounter anything vlc doesn't handle
proqnayankk: M-x compile doesn't use a default directory.  it uses the cwd of the file you are editintg
srbakerjlf: same. although i have found a few movies where it lets the audio get out of sync, that quicktime handles better
jlf`huh, never noticed that. although there are hotkeys to timeshift the audio in something like 50ms increments for synchronization with the video.
nayankkproq: Yeah.. Is there a way to tell emacs to start from default directory, rather than the cwd of the file where I edit
nayankkproq: I mean, lets say I am editing in /home/nayan/WebKit/gtk/webkit, but when I invoke 'M-x compile', I want the compilation to start from /home/nayan..
jlf`nayankk: see C-h v compile-command
proqnayankk: additionaly, you can bind a new compile command such as: (global-set-key (kbd "<f9>") (lambda() (interactive)(compile "make -k blah blah")))
wgreenhouseZeus did it.
jlf`zeus weighs in on christianity
jlf`curse wgreenhouse's fast fingers
wgreenhouselet's make their holy men have a miracle-off with our holy men
wgreenhouseand sell tickets
twbnayankk: you do "make -C ~"
nayankkproq: jif`: Thanks guys..
proq$700,000?  I'll replace it for half that
twbproq: that includes the amphitheatre.
jlf`guys don't worry it'll raise itself after 3 days
tasslehoffI used xref before, and a nice feature was the dead code detection. Now I have to pay for xref myself, so I don't use it anymore. Any other packages that provide such niceties? Perhaps something in CEDET/ECB?
twbAnything emacs-based would be a bit silly
proqmaybe now, but not in emacs 25
twbAt most, Emacs should just have a UI for valgrind or clang or something
tasslehofftwb: color me silly then :) I liked the way xref did it :)
legumbrehere's hoping emacs 25 will feature JIT and elisp to iphone exporter
proqemacs can't have anything to do with iphone until apple complies with GPLv3 terms
proqaside from editing source code, of course
jlf`you can do anything at^W^W^Win emacs 25. anything at all.
legumbremaybe the next iphone dev agreement will only allow you to write code with XCode
quotemstr_#emacs, what sort of easter egg should I put in Windows?
legumbrequotemstr_: strace
quotemstr_legumbre: Already exists as a sysinternals tool.
proqlegumbre: actually, I've contemplated an elisp to objective C compiler a number of times while using my zaurus
jlf`quotemstr_: gpl poison pill!!
proqlegumbre: unfortunately, I'm not much of a compiler writer
proqquotemstr_: you're working on windows?
legumbreproq: get to it!
proqquotemstr_: embed emacs into it!
Action: legumbre reads about this sysinternals business
proqlegumbre: heh.  my zaurus is getting old, so there's not much motivation to make one now
legumbreproq: you can get an iPad and try it there!
proqlegumbre: try what?
legumbreproq: the objc code generated by your compiler
quotemstr_My Model M gets a first-class ticket. It rides in the front passenger seat where I can make sure it's safe.
proqactually, my zaurus runs scheme and there are lots of scheme->c compilers out there
quotemstr_My diploma, on the other hand, is buried under four or five layers of boxes.
quotemstr_Clearly, I have appropriate priorities.
legumbreproq: yeah, I tried gambit on the iphone
jlf`they may consider the M as a weapon
quotemstr_Since Obj-C is a superset of C, wouldn't it make sense to use one of the existing Lisp-to-C compilers?
legumbreproq: I couldn't get a repl to the actual device though :(
proqthat's what I said
proqquotemstr_: ^^
proqlegumbre: you built emacs for the iPad?
Action: legumbre_ shakes fist at ISP
proqit's probably not that hard to build emacs for the iPad with the latest and greatest cocoa emacs
proqor just install ubuntu on the iPad  :)
wgreenhouseproq: and then put it in the app store?  oh the irony
wgreenhousecocoa emacs for the ipad that is
proqwgreenhouse: no, apple wouldn't approve it.  you would have to share it with other means
nakare there any good emacs books that anyone wants to recommend
proqeither that or you'd have to bribe apple to approve an elisp interpreter
twbnak: the elisp intro and the emacs manual.
twbnak: both ship with GNU Emacs, and you can buy dead-tree versions from the FSF.
twbThere is also the gnu and giraffe books from ORA (O'Reilley), but these are several major versions out of date.
proqwhile we're on the subject of emacs on iPad, I want a pony  :P
legumbrequotemstr_: <-- is this it?
naktwb: thanks
nakproq: emacs on the ;/
lisptasticAnybody know how to view the source of an elisp function? C-h f doesn't show the file.
pgasmaybe you need to install the source? what does the first line say?
lisptastic"interactive compiled lisp function"
naeu`does anyone know how I switch off erc's autofocus behaviour?
pgaslisptastic: hmm, I don't remember having ever seen this.
jlf`lisptastic: does M-: (symbol-function 'your-function)  return anything useful?
jlf`after (defun yowza (a) (+ a 4)), (symbol-function 'yowza) => (lambda (a) (+ a 4))
nakI tried downloading a color-theme and modifying my .emacs according to the emacswiki, but it didn't work, I replaced it with zenburn and it worked
jlf`but compiled functions may differ..
nakthe theme was color-theme-tango
proqnaeu`: autofocus behavior?
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