Bluebie	I still see the list?
samtihen	ah, sorry, on localhost
Bluebie	okay..
samtihen	ill just google collaping margins
samtihen	thanks for your help
samtihen	i just needed a direction!
Bluebie	set "list-style-position: inside;"
samtihen	much appreciated
Bluebie	:)
samtihen	will do
Bluebie	on the ol..
Bluebie	You're welcome :)
samtihen	cool. its the paragraph as well
samtihen	it shouldnt be as close to the image as it is
Bluebie	padding never collapses, so if you need to avoid this confusing mess, use padding when you can
Bluebie	ah
Bluebie	try setting overflow: hidden on various things
samtihen	the image has a margin and a padding
Bluebie	it can stop collapsing margins
Bluebie	but googling the phrase will reveal many solutions :)
samtihen	thanks!
fearfail	hey, i'm doing something like this: #parent p { color: red; } .child p { color: green; } and in html: <div id="parent"><div class="child"><p>footext</p></div></div>
fearfail	footext is still red. Why does the child div not override it?
m4rtin	]css specificity @ fearfail
_ZofBot4	fearfail, CSS Specificity: http://htmldog.com/guides/cssadvanced/specificity/ , http://w3.org/TR/CSS21/cascade.html#specificity
m4rtin	use: #parent.child p to get a high enough specificity to override
fearfail	ahh i see how it works
fearfail	thankz
mseph	is it possible to make a horizontal menu in css so that the items are evenly spaced across the page without specifying the width of each item separately?
Bluebie	mseph...
Bluebie	Do you intend that the gap between the last letter of one item and the first letter of the next would be even, or that the centre points of each item would be evenly spaced?
Bluebie	such that two long words would have little gap between them, but be still laid out to the same rhythm regardless of their size?
mseph	the latter
mseph	like solution number 2 on this page: http://www.sovavsiti.cz/css/horizontal_menu.html
Bluebie	You'll need to specify a width for all of the items..
mseph	ok cool thanks Bluebie
Bluebie	I take it you have some trouble there due to a dynamicism to the list's contents?
mseph	yep, but i think i can deal with it
foo	is it good practice to uppercase the actual text on a website, or use CSS to make it uppercaes?
mseph	i didn't want to have to rely on a scripting language if css and html could handle it by themselves
Bluebie	Alrighty..
Bluebie	foo: Use CSS on the basis that a screenreader might confuse BIG HATS for B.I.G. H.A.T.S. and try to spell out the letters, would be my entirely baseless guess.
riven	foo: that depends. If the actual text is supposed to be uppercased to make sense (e.g. NASA), then do so. If it's just for stylistic purposes, use CSS.
Bluebie	Aside from that, I can't see how it would matter beyond what's most convenient
Bluebie	Using CSS leaves you more wiggle room in the future if you redesign and decide you no longer want it capitalised, don't have to go hack the content/software
Bluebie	<3 Web Fonts ^_^
Bluebie	Font Squirrel is such an awesome service!
riven	foo: so, say you have a menu (Home - Products - Contact) and you want it to be uppercased, do it with CSS - never in the HTML.
foo	riven: gotcha, stylistic. thank you
riven	foo: what Bluebie said is also true: screen readers will get confused :)
foo	what are "screen readers" ?
riven	foo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_reader
Bluebie	foo: It is a tool used by the blind in order to access software and webpages
foo	Bluebie: ahh, ok
foo	hadn't thought about that, thanks!
Bluebie	Essentially, a more advanced version of the 'read text aloud' text to speech function on any computer, capable of describing shapes, layouts, and interactive components like buttons and links in a way which allows the disabled to operate and navigate the interactive parts
Mattias	I was just wondering, overflow-y <-- seems to work in all the browsers I've tried it in, IE5, IE6, IE7, IE8 etc, chrome, firefox. and so on.  I can't find overflow-y on w3school, was just wondering, is this valid css? :P
Mattias	I want scrollbars on y
riven	]w3schools @ Mattias
_ZofBot4	Mattias, W3Schools == Errors, omissions, deceit.  Stop reading/pointing to them! Syntax Errors in the example --> http://xrl.us/bfxwd | Complete bullshit -> http://xrl.us/bfxwf | Can't get it even more wrong if tried --> http://xrl.us/bfxwh
riven	Mattias: overflow-x/-y are part of a CSS3 module
riven	And, indeed, supported by all browsers you could possibly care about.
Mattias	yeah, I read that from google hits, but then I saw those older browsers had it too
Mattias	so w3schools is junk then? :P
riven	yes
Mattias	I thought w3school came from w3c
riven	no
Bluebie	Nope, hence, deceit :P
Mattias	gah
Mattias	I always thought that!
riven	lots of people do
Bluebie	the w3c has their own websites with lots of very useful, well written, accurate information
Mattias	I'll go straight to w3c for info then :)
mseph	for a horizontal menu with items evenly spaced across page is there any reason not to use tables?
Mattias	mseph, semantics
Mattias	mseph, you just progressively enhance a page with css, if the web browser does not have css, the page should still display properly
mseph	ok thanks Mattias.  semantics means that ul li is more appropriate notation for a menu than table tr td?
Mattias	semantics means you use the right element for the right purpose, or something like that :P
oksushi	mseph: <table> is inappropriate html for a menu. A menu is a list of links
oksushi	therefore, use a list, most likely a <ul>
Mattias	tables are for data
oksushi	you can 'evenly space' <li> over a <ul> by setting a width
mseph	yep thanks oksushi and Mattias
steven_t	hia
square	would someone please send the actual link http://xrl.us/kd35 is pointing to. xrl.us is blocked in my network
Bluebie	http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/everything.html
square	thanks
Bluebie	You're welcome ^_^
Action: Bluebie does so very muchly want a Square
giggsey	Is it possible to do outline-top: ?
riven	no
riven	wouldn't be much of an outline
Multiply	Let's say I have a website, like <body><div>header</div><div>rest of the site</div></div></body> <- If my header is always having a height of 20px, how would I go by making the rest of the content, be 100% - 20px? :P
Multiply	I wrote 2x </div> at the end. That's obviously only supposed to be one.
riven	Multiply: http://www.pud.ca/misc/testcase/fullheight.html
Slartibart	Page is #header,#main,#footer. #main is relatively positioned, with height set. Within it there's a block element whose height varies between 224-287px depending on the vertical space available. But how to center i vertically within main?
Multiply	riven, I kinda need the reversed. Having a header instead. Plus can I use body as the container?
riven	Multiply: just ignore the footer -- and you can add the header inside of the main column
Multiply	riven, I guess I'm just confused atm. It's getting a bit more advanced, give me a sec, to put up an example :P
Multiply	What I want to achieve is header (100% width, 20px height), then a sidebar (200px width, full height), next to the sidebar, is a tabbar (full width, 30px height), and under that, but still next to the sidebar, goes content (full width, full height).
enoj	How can I force text without newline to wrap? is it even possible? - http://idev.no/breaktest.html
Multiply	I've almost set it up properly, but the header keeps bumping down the whole page by the 20px :P
riven	enoj: `word-wrap: break-word`
Heliodor	There's a dotter border around buttons with images when i clicked them, how do i get rid of it?
riven	Heliodor: "buttons with images"?
Heliodor	input buttons
Heliodor	with src=/image.gif
Heliodor	found solution http://css-tricks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1696
riven	Heliodor: input::-moz-focus-inner { border: 0 } for moz
Heliodor	Thanks. seem there is no solution
riven	Heliodor: note that whatever you do, always make sure you have *someting* in place to indicate that the button is focusses
riven	err, focussed*
Heliodor	Ok
Heliodor	Im using a js script for that.
Heliodor	Hm, i'll just keep it.
Heliodor	Seem it won't work with keyboard
enoj	riven: got something for opera users also ?
riven	enoj: no.
Multiply	riven - Here's an example, but it's not quite right yet. http://editor.exte.dk/
riven	Multiply: passworded
Multiply	riven, I _just_ removed it
Multiply	As you said it. :P
Multiply	riven: I don't know if my description earlier explains kinda what I want to achieve, precisely enough.. But I basicly have it. I just need to get rid of the scrollbars. If there's too content in #sidebar/#content, they should have scrollbars tho.
riven	Multiply: you're gonna be able to do that, not cross-browser anyway
riven	err
riven	NOT gonna be able :p
Multiply	riven, as long as it works in firefox, I'm happy. It's just going to be for me anyway :P
riven	Multiply: you may want to look into the Flexbox layout system, then
riven	That's the closest you're gonna get, and I'm not even 100% sure it can do exactly what you want
Multiply	If all fails, I can go and rely on some javascript, I guess.
riven	indeed
riven	Multiply: see https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla_CSS_support_chart (search for 'flex')
riven	Multiply: also see http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-css3-flexbox-20090723/ for more details, but note that mozilla's implementation may not be 100% compatible with that draft
Multiply	I'm wondering tho.. Can't I just absolute-position everything, and put proper margins/divs on, and use overflow:hidden / auto?
Multiply	r/div/padding
Multiply	For content, padding-top would be 20+30, and padding-left would be 200.
Multiply	And of course positioned to top:0;left:0
Multiply	I don't know... I'm gonna go for flex. It sounds more awesome.
riven	sure, but that's generally not a very good approach
riven	although in this case, that could work
Bluebie	Heya!
Multiply	riven, actually flexbox is pure love. I'm gonna go with that, and only use firefox. :P
riven	yeah, flexboxes are sweet
riven	Multiply: webkit also supports them, with -webkit- prefix, but you may run into small differences
Bluebie	I'm wondering if anyone knows of a technique to solve this problem..
Bluebie	http://creativepony.com/gallery/viewer/Photography%3AGlass+Pony%3ATime+for+Training.jpg
Bluebie	I'm trying to get the large image in the middle to resize to fit within the area given, without causing a scrollbar or being signifficantly clipped
Bluebie	But I'm having a hard time getting 100% to mean 100% of the remaining space rather than 100% of the size of <html>
Bluebie	Is there a way to solve that?
Bluebie	Aside from scripting it..
riven	Bluebie: without being significantly clipped? You'd rather the image is distorted instead?
Bluebie	No, while maintaining aspect..
Bluebie	it's working fine as it is, except for being 28px too high in safari..
riven	or do you mean, fit the image in the designated area, so as to cover as much space as possible, while still displaying the whole image?
Bluebie	Not sure about firefox as I don't have a current version on my computer
Multiply	riven, quick question.. I'm using -moz-box-flex, and so on, but am I just supposed to use "display: box"?
riven	-moz-box
Bluebie	fit such that white (well grey) space appears on the sides if needed to keep the entire image viewable while shrinking it to fit within the viewport
Bluebie	max-width/height are being quite helpful there
Mattias	Multiply, remember to use the -webkit equivalent
Mattias	-webkit-box :P
Multiply	Both in the same display?
Bluebie	I don't care if it doesn't work in old IE < 9 so long as it isn't terribly mangled in them :)
Mattias	both in the same css rule
Multiply	And Mattias, I'm only going to use it in firefox anyway. :P
Mattias	Multiply, will other uses go to this page
Mattias	users*
Multiply	Not ever, no.
Mattias	then you are fine :P
Multiply	I'm in love with flexbox now. Really making this whole lot easier.
Multiply	And what's even better, is that I can resize my sidebar easier, with js, than before. Heck, even with CSS if needed.
eneas	Hi
eneas	if I need 4 td width 200px and 5º td with the rest
eneas	I can use first td width 200, second width 200, and 5º 100% ?
Multiply	colspan 3
eneas	oh yes, thanks
dgx	hey guys, how do you work on you projects(own/work/others)? Do you start straight from the design/coding phase or do you do some project specs before hand(or your manager/employer?)
ZombieLoffe	lolwut
dgx	Yea, im serious tho.
cigan_	how do make table borders only appear on top and bottom? tks for helping
Bluebie	cigan_: look at border-top and border-bottom
cigan_	i set it to 0 in the <TR> tag dint work
eneas	How I can open div with full screen
eneas	position: absolute, margin:0, left: 0, top:0 height: 100%
eneas	not found
eneas	height not is 100%
Multiply	Is any of the parent elements position set?
eneas	inner body
eneas	but body i can't modify
Multiply	Show an example. :P
eneas	$("body").append("<div class='xxx'>test</div>");
eneas	xxx { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0 ; margin: 0; width: 100%; height: 100%; }
eneas	div with xxx class not showed in full screen
riven	]secret @ eneas
_ZofBot4	eneas, secret: No URL = no help. We are not telepaths, and can't determine the problem (let alone the solution) without playing with the troublesome page. So, give URL, or leave the channel and call 1-900-PSYCHIC. Oh, and good luck. You'll need it.
Slartibart	Any thoughts on how to vertically center the menu and image on weareart.se ? Problem is they both vary in size as browser viewport size changes.
Travis-42	Is there a css3 selector for matching by inner text? Somewhere I read about ":contains", but it doesn't seem to be part of the spec, or generally supported
riven	correct
riven	it was removed
peb7268	hey guys having a color matching issue with css

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