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Cobblestoneyeah, let me get an isolated link for you with the examples I"ve seen that are still doing it.
Peteinriven: i must not change the css
rivenPetein: then you must be out of luck.
CobblestoneLOL Petein
Cobblestonecan't you back up the one that's there and use one that you are working on for testing purposes Petein ?
Peteinriven: wait ill paste it somewhere. the css file
rivenPetein: no need
Peteinriven: here http://codepad.org/uWLTpC5N
Action: riven shrugs
Peteinriven: so there isnt anything special. how can i add this for the table?
rivenPetein: again, if you can't touch the css, you're out of luck.
PeteinCobblestone: i can but i dont know how to change the css for this purpose
CobblestonePetein: you're not giving any room for help, tell riven what he wants to hear and get dirty with your css.
CobblestoneEven most CMS's let you touch the CMS, this is where your trouble is.
Cobblestone*touch the CSS
Action: Cobblestone hahahah
PeteinCobblestone: im not using a CMS
lectrickhi there. How do I do the thing where the text field has a grey suggestion in it as to what goes inside, until focus goes to it?
Peteinriver dude can you tell me how can i keep the css for my table there?
CobblestonePetein:  You're going to have to mess with the CSS to get help with it. This is all I"m going to say about this.
rivenlectrick: JS. HTML5 standardizes that with the "placeholder" attribute, but currently only Opera (I believe) supports that.
PeteinCobblestone: why you dont tell me how?
rivenlectrick: also note that you cannot ever use that as a replacement for an actual <label>!
Cobblestonebecause riven is the dude on right now that remotely knows what you want. Honestly just take a couple of steps back and reintroduce yourself as someone who can edit their css. My knowledge is limited and lacks what you probably actually need. IMO you need to crack open a css book because unless you're using a spread sheet I don't know why you would want to control your CSS with tables.
Cobblestonethat was to Petein
PeteinCobblestone: i want to keep the same styling for the text inside the table
smg'day all
rivenello
Cobblestoneand why aren't you using divs?
PeteinCobblestone: ok i put a div amd the table is inside that div. now what
Cobblestone:-) this isn't a css class this is a css help class, you need to re read whatever it is you looked at
Cobblestone*help being the key word
PeteinCobblestone: firebug shows that the table keeps the above CSS styling. but its not.why?
CobblestoneI mean let me ask you this, do you know the purpose of using the div instead of a table?
lectrickriven hear you on the "label" thing, kind of disappointed in only-Opera support with the standard
riven]secret @ Petein
_ZofBot4Petein, secret: No URL = no help. We are not telepaths, and can't determine the problem (let alone the solution) without playing with the troublesome page. So, give URL, or leave the channel and call 1-900-PSYCHIC. Oh, and good luck. You'll need it.
rivenlectrick: err, HTML5 isn't a standard yet :p
rivenwell, a draft.
Peteinriven: http://techmanthan.wordpress.com/2007/12/26/why-not/
Peteinriven: div seems more difficult though to use
CobblestonePetein: really? even I wasn't this lost when I came on here the first time. at least I had something to make fun of :-)
PeteinCobblestone: i believe that im more experienced in C/Java/Python than you are
CobblestoneThen CSS should be a breeze !
PeteinCobblestone: i dont like CSS. i was forced to do something
Cobblestonewhat are you stuck in the early 90's?
nemoriven, lectrick
nemotested placeholder, works in FF3.7 at least
rivenneat
preactionthen this is the wrong place to ask for help, you're looking to hire someone to do things for you, go to #css-lance or rentacoder.com
nemo(which I'm using as default browser these days)
Action: nemo fires up FF3.6
nemohttp://m8y.org/tmp/testcase154.xhtml
nemonot in FF3.6
nemonot in Opera 10 either
nemoso I guess if you mean opera, you mean 10.5 alpha
rivennope
rivenseems I was wrong there
nemoworks in Chrome nightlies
monokromeWhat is that supposed to do?
nemoand webkit nightlies
rivenI figured Opera did since they also support most of the other form enhancements.
nemoand Safari 4
nemoriven: doesn't work in Opera 10.5 either
nemosooo
monokromeooh. The placeholder attribute
PeteinCobblestone: dude... come on... show me how
nemoFF3.7, Safari, Chrome
CobblestoneNo! hahhaha! are you kidding me?
nemowell. admittedly my opera 10.5 build is a bit old
rivenI have the latest and it doesn't work
dehuman<Petein> riven: div seems more difficult though to use <-- lolwut?
oksushinemo: looks cool in webkit nightly
nemooksushi: huh. really?
nemo looked same in chrome nightly as FF3.7
oksushithe 'placeholder' in the input?
Action: nemo fires up webkit nightly
nemolooks same in webkit nightly too
nemooksushi: dunno. looks pretty standard :)
nemoI wonder if browsers have style hooks...
Action: nemo examines it in firebug
nemonothing obvious in DOM or default styles...
Cobblestoneso riven, I'm here:http://www.brunildo.org/test/Overflowxy2.html and I can still scroll all around when the box is an overflow-foo hidden
Action: riven shrugs
rivenI belive you...
rivenbelieve*
Cobblestoneis it just not completely supported? I get the effect I want when it's just overflow
dehumani wish i wasnt so ugly
dehumansigh
oksushinemo: input.red::-webkit-input-placeholder {color: red;}
dehumanoh well, at least i have a hot girlfriend
nemooksushi: hm. that suggests an intuitive firefox name :)
rivenCobblestone: I already asked this, but... have you checked the various browsers' bug trackers?
Cobblestoneno I haven't I guess I should.
rivendehuman: show tits or gtfo. [obligatory repsonse]
rivenresponse*
nemooksushi: nope. not -moz-input-placeholder...
oksushidang
nemooksushi: heh. I wonder if you can use background-image etc
nemoand gradients
dehumanriven: dont have tits handy :(
oksushinemo: or blink ;)
nemolol
rivennemo: when a pseudo-selector makes it into CSS, it will certainly be restricted, like :first-line etc.
nemooksushi: somehow I suspect some parts of CSS3 will never be implemented
nemolike marquee module
rivenprobably will only allow text-level styling.
smspeaking of gradients. I can't see a robust way to fix the background gradient at http://newarch.archaeology.ucla.edu/programs/ (the ugly gray to white transition at the bottom). Is there one ?
smok.. as usual, asking has stimulated a few ideas..
nemooksushi: I love this CSS feature - good for degrading gracefully for non-JS browsers, something my sites need to do anyway
Cobblestonegive it a real footer and take away the gradient entirely
nemoand harmless for non-supporting browsers
nemos/CSS/HTML5/
nemooksushi: BTW, one thing that pisses me off about those autosuggest as implemented right now, if you have no JS, you get that annoying text to erase. so few do it properly
Cobblestonesm: I would also try getting more of your content above the fold too
nemooksushi: but w/ placeholder= you could fetch the placeholder attribute that IE will probably preserve, and use it to do a show/hide hook
Cobblestoneyou've got room
nemohmmm
nemoof course, now I have to figure out how to skip the JS for non-IE browsers :)
nemomeh. I think I'll just put it in for supporting browsers, the inputs didn't have text before anyway
nemos/non-IE/supporting/
oksushinemo: sorry, was making coffee. But I agree :)
nemooksushi: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=457801
smthanks
Cobblestonesm, just like you have a solid blue title with little bits of lighting, do the same thing below
Cobblestonebut think of the footer as further from the light and color that as so. I can see you want a light source on most your objects.
Cobblestoneso many bugs riven :-P
Raptelandoes :hover work on any element, such as a span?
preactionyes, but not in IE6
Raptelanok, that's okay with me.
Cobblestoneif anyone is still using ie6 after the google hack I'd be surprised
Cobblestoneriven I can only find IE bugs would someone consider this a bug?
rivenIf it's considered a bug in IE8, then yes. :)
CobblestoneI mean if you rely on scroll bars then the issue isn't one, but if you have a trackpad or scrollwheel it'll give issues.... and the ie bugs aren't specific to this instance.
CobblestoneThe instance being that overflow-y hidden just takes away the scroll bar but doesn't eliminate the scroll feature for scroll wheels and trackpads.
rivenCobblestone: why don't you go and ask in webkit's or mozilla's irc channel?
CobblestoneI was making sure it wasn't a css thing first
Cobblestonelike, that's just how it is, there's no real fix, sort of thing.
rivenI honestly don't know. It'd say it's a bug, but who knows.
rivenBetter to ask a webkit or mozilla dev :)
zamabeCobblestone, are you applying it to html or body?
Cobblestonehtml
Cobblestonenever thought of putting it in body, I'll search for a moz channel riven
Cobblestoneunless you know of one..
Cobblestonezamabe: you know my issue?
rivenCobblestone: irc.mozilla.org/developers
Cobblestonesolving this will fix a different bug in chromium
Cobblestonethanks riven !
zamabeno but i know that typically all browsers won't let you permanentely hide the contents of html or body like that =/
Cobblestonewell overflow hidden works like I want it to
rivenzamabe: sure they do.
zamaberiven: display:none; is all
rivenzamabe: uh, no.
rivenwhat Cobblestone said.
zamabeORLY, click your scrollwheel and you'll see a round movement thing come up that lets you see the rest of the page
zamabei haven't seen it do it with divs though
zamabeprobably because the scroll only affects the document
elb0wI can put classes on td's right?
dgselb0w: yes
Cobblestoneeven if I put everything in a containing div to get the overflow effect I want, it still would act the same par example of the link I gave.
elb0wk silly question
elb0wi know
elb0w:P
CobblestoneI don't know if I know what you're saying zamabe :-)
Cobblestonethat irc link isn't working for me riven I'll search for it.
zamabe[cell]Erm, I know its not usually recommended and I'm not even sure it will work, but try putting a wrapper div inside body and applying the overflow y to it
Cobblestonelink zamabe
Cobblestone?
zamabe[cell]What
zamabe[cell]Hell no I'm not making a testcase on a cellphone
Cobblestonesorry I didin't read it carefully enough
CobblestoneI just said that doesn't work though
Cobblestoneare you talking about pseudo classes for the body zamabe ?
zamabe[cell]No, I gave you directions to try
RaptelanCobblestone: what google hack?
Cobblestoneright, even if I put it all in a contained div, that div will still scroll if someone has a trackpad or scrollwheel
CobblestoneI'm looking for the article Raptelan
CobblestoneRaptelan: http://gizmodo.com/5475612/chinese-hack-tracked-back-to-two-universities-and-an-ie-exploit
Cobblestonegoogle subsequently wants to (has?) banned China from accessing it's server.
zamabe[cell]Actually they did the opposite
CobblestoneThey made china their server?
zamabe[cell]AFAIK Google uncensored in China
zamabe[cell]China's "great firewall" prob didn't like that
RaptelanCobblestone: they want to ban china because they were running IE 6 and got bit.  Well that's just stupid.
RaptelanIE has had tons and tons of exploits over time.
Raptelanthis is nothing new.
CobblestoneI still don't understand why companies IT can't go and update the browswers
RaptelanCobblestone: where I work, there is corporate policy that forbids running anything newer than IE6.
Cobblestone*company's IT department
zamabe[cell]Raptelan: what are you saying?
RaptelanCobblestone: but we violate policy at our location, and run Firefox and update IE to 8 :P
Cobblestonehow do you deal with the possibility of being exploited like google?
Cobblestoneoh
Cobblestonehahah
zamabe[cell]Cobblestone: money
Cobblestonewhat's the money?
Cobblestonetheir software ?
RaptelanCobblestone: well, the corporate policy is to yell at users not to open links in mail, apply security updates maybe, etc.
Cobblestoneyou don't think google had this as well?
jedimindupdating several thousand computers at once and making sure that the multi-million dollar in-house intranet that they've had for 10 years still works
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