Cobblestone	yeah, let me get an isolated link for you with the examples I"ve seen that are still doing it.
Petein	riven: i must not change the css
riven	Petein: then you must be out of luck.
Cobblestone	LOL Petein
Cobblestone	can't you back up the one that's there and use one that you are working on for testing purposes Petein ?
Petein	riven: wait ill paste it somewhere. the css file
riven	Petein: no need
Petein	riven: here http://codepad.org/uWLTpC5N
Action: riven shrugs
Petein	riven: so there isnt anything special. how can i add this for the table?
riven	Petein: again, if you can't touch the css, you're out of luck.
Petein	Cobblestone: i can but i dont know how to change the css for this purpose
Cobblestone	Petein: you're not giving any room for help, tell riven what he wants to hear and get dirty with your css.
Cobblestone	Even most CMS's let you touch the CMS, this is where your trouble is.
Cobblestone	*touch the CSS
Action: Cobblestone hahahah
Petein	Cobblestone: im not using a CMS
lectrick	hi there. How do I do the thing where the text field has a grey suggestion in it as to what goes inside, until focus goes to it?
Petein	river dude can you tell me how can i keep the css for my table there?
Cobblestone	Petein:  You're going to have to mess with the CSS to get help with it. This is all I"m going to say about this.
riven	lectrick: JS. HTML5 standardizes that with the "placeholder" attribute, but currently only Opera (I believe) supports that.
Petein	Cobblestone: why you dont tell me how?
riven	lectrick: also note that you cannot ever use that as a replacement for an actual <label>!
Cobblestone	because riven is the dude on right now that remotely knows what you want. Honestly just take a couple of steps back and reintroduce yourself as someone who can edit their css. My knowledge is limited and lacks what you probably actually need. IMO you need to crack open a css book because unless you're using a spread sheet I don't know why you would want to control your CSS with tables.
Cobblestone	that was to Petein
Petein	Cobblestone: i want to keep the same styling for the text inside the table
sm	g'day all
riven	ello
Cobblestone	and why aren't you using divs?
Petein	Cobblestone: ok i put a div amd the table is inside that div. now what
Cobblestone	:-) this isn't a css class this is a css help class, you need to re read whatever it is you looked at
Cobblestone	*help being the key word
Petein	Cobblestone: firebug shows that the table keeps the above CSS styling. but its not.why?
Cobblestone	I mean let me ask you this, do you know the purpose of using the div instead of a table?
lectrick	riven hear you on the "label" thing, kind of disappointed in only-Opera support with the standard
riven	]secret @ Petein
_ZofBot4	Petein, secret: No URL = no help. We are not telepaths, and can't determine the problem (let alone the solution) without playing with the troublesome page. So, give URL, or leave the channel and call 1-900-PSYCHIC. Oh, and good luck. You'll need it.
riven	lectrick: err, HTML5 isn't a standard yet :p
riven	well, a draft.
Petein	riven: http://techmanthan.wordpress.com/2007/12/26/why-not/
Petein	riven: div seems more difficult though to use
Cobblestone	Petein: really? even I wasn't this lost when I came on here the first time. at least I had something to make fun of :-)
Petein	Cobblestone: i believe that im more experienced in C/Java/Python than you are
Cobblestone	Then CSS should be a breeze !
Petein	Cobblestone: i dont like CSS. i was forced to do something
Cobblestone	what are you stuck in the early 90's?
nemo	riven, lectrick
nemo	tested placeholder, works in FF3.7 at least
riven	neat
preaction	then this is the wrong place to ask for help, you're looking to hire someone to do things for you, go to #css-lance or rentacoder.com
nemo	(which I'm using as default browser these days)
Action: nemo fires up FF3.6
nemo	http://m8y.org/tmp/testcase154.xhtml
nemo	not in FF3.6
nemo	not in Opera 10 either
nemo	so I guess if you mean opera, you mean 10.5 alpha
riven	nope
riven	seems I was wrong there
nemo	works in Chrome nightlies
monokrome	What is that supposed to do?
nemo	and webkit nightlies
riven	I figured Opera did since they also support most of the other form enhancements.
nemo	and Safari 4
nemo	riven: doesn't work in Opera 10.5 either
nemo	sooo
monokrome	ooh. The placeholder attribute
Petein	Cobblestone: dude... come on... show me how
nemo	FF3.7, Safari, Chrome
Cobblestone	No! hahhaha! are you kidding me?
nemo	well. admittedly my opera 10.5 build is a bit old
riven	I have the latest and it doesn't work
dehuman	<Petein> riven: div seems more difficult though to use <-- lolwut?
oksushi	nemo: looks cool in webkit nightly
nemo	oksushi: huh. really?
nemo	looked same in chrome nightly as FF3.7
oksushi	the 'placeholder' in the input?
Action: nemo fires up webkit nightly
nemo	looks same in webkit nightly too
nemo	oksushi: dunno. looks pretty standard :)
nemo	I wonder if browsers have style hooks...
Action: nemo examines it in firebug
nemo	nothing obvious in DOM or default styles...
Cobblestone	so riven, I'm here:http://www.brunildo.org/test/Overflowxy2.html and I can still scroll all around when the box is an overflow-foo hidden
Action: riven shrugs
riven	I belive you...
riven	believe*
Cobblestone	is it just not completely supported? I get the effect I want when it's just overflow
dehuman	i wish i wasnt so ugly
dehuman	sigh
oksushi	nemo: input.red::-webkit-input-placeholder {color: red;}
dehuman	oh well, at least i have a hot girlfriend
nemo	oksushi: hm. that suggests an intuitive firefox name :)
riven	Cobblestone: I already asked this, but... have you checked the various browsers' bug trackers?
Cobblestone	no I haven't I guess I should.
riven	dehuman: show tits or gtfo. [obligatory repsonse]
riven	response*
nemo	oksushi: nope. not -moz-input-placeholder...
oksushi	dang
nemo	oksushi: heh. I wonder if you can use background-image etc
nemo	and gradients
dehuman	riven: dont have tits handy :(
oksushi	nemo: or blink ;)
nemo	lol
riven	nemo: when a pseudo-selector makes it into CSS, it will certainly be restricted, like :first-line etc.
nemo	oksushi: somehow I suspect some parts of CSS3 will never be implemented
nemo	like marquee module
riven	probably will only allow text-level styling.
sm	speaking of gradients. I can't see a robust way to fix the background gradient at http://newarch.archaeology.ucla.edu/programs/ (the ugly gray to white transition at the bottom). Is there one ?
sm	ok.. as usual, asking has stimulated a few ideas..
nemo	oksushi: I love this CSS feature - good for degrading gracefully for non-JS browsers, something my sites need to do anyway
Cobblestone	give it a real footer and take away the gradient entirely
nemo	and harmless for non-supporting browsers
nemo	s/CSS/HTML5/
nemo	oksushi: BTW, one thing that pisses me off about those autosuggest as implemented right now, if you have no JS, you get that annoying text to erase. so few do it properly
Cobblestone	sm: I would also try getting more of your content above the fold too
nemo	oksushi: but w/ placeholder= you could fetch the placeholder attribute that IE will probably preserve, and use it to do a show/hide hook
Cobblestone	you've got room
nemo	hmmm
nemo	of course, now I have to figure out how to skip the JS for non-IE browsers :)
nemo	meh. I think I'll just put it in for supporting browsers, the inputs didn't have text before anyway
nemo	s/non-IE/supporting/
oksushi	nemo: sorry, was making coffee. But I agree :)
nemo	oksushi: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=457801
sm	thanks
Cobblestone	sm, just like you have a solid blue title with little bits of lighting, do the same thing below
Cobblestone	but think of the footer as further from the light and color that as so. I can see you want a light source on most your objects.
Cobblestone	so many bugs riven :-P
Raptelan	does :hover work on any element, such as a span?
preaction	yes, but not in IE6
Raptelan	ok, that's okay with me.
Cobblestone	if anyone is still using ie6 after the google hack I'd be surprised
Cobblestone	riven I can only find IE bugs would someone consider this a bug?
riven	If it's considered a bug in IE8, then yes. :)
Cobblestone	I mean if you rely on scroll bars then the issue isn't one, but if you have a trackpad or scrollwheel it'll give issues.... and the ie bugs aren't specific to this instance.
Cobblestone	The instance being that overflow-y hidden just takes away the scroll bar but doesn't eliminate the scroll feature for scroll wheels and trackpads.
riven	Cobblestone: why don't you go and ask in webkit's or mozilla's irc channel?
Cobblestone	I was making sure it wasn't a css thing first
Cobblestone	like, that's just how it is, there's no real fix, sort of thing.
riven	I honestly don't know. It'd say it's a bug, but who knows.
riven	Better to ask a webkit or mozilla dev :)
zamabe	Cobblestone, are you applying it to html or body?
Cobblestone	html
Cobblestone	never thought of putting it in body, I'll search for a moz channel riven
Cobblestone	unless you know of one..
Cobblestone	zamabe: you know my issue?
riven	Cobblestone: irc.mozilla.org/developers
Cobblestone	solving this will fix a different bug in chromium
Cobblestone	thanks riven !
zamabe	no but i know that typically all browsers won't let you permanentely hide the contents of html or body like that =/
Cobblestone	well overflow hidden works like I want it to
riven	zamabe: sure they do.
zamabe	riven: display:none; is all
riven	zamabe: uh, no.
riven	what Cobblestone said.
zamabe	ORLY, click your scrollwheel and you'll see a round movement thing come up that lets you see the rest of the page
zamabe	i haven't seen it do it with divs though
zamabe	probably because the scroll only affects the document
elb0w	I can put classes on td's right?
dgs	elb0w: yes
Cobblestone	even if I put everything in a containing div to get the overflow effect I want, it still would act the same par example of the link I gave.
elb0w	k silly question
elb0w	i know
elb0w	:P
Cobblestone	I don't know if I know what you're saying zamabe :-)
Cobblestone	that irc link isn't working for me riven I'll search for it.
zamabe[cell]	Erm, I know its not usually recommended and I'm not even sure it will work, but try putting a wrapper div inside body and applying the overflow y to it
Cobblestone	link zamabe
Cobblestone	?
zamabe[cell]	What
zamabe[cell]	Hell no I'm not making a testcase on a cellphone
Cobblestone	sorry I didin't read it carefully enough
Cobblestone	I just said that doesn't work though
Cobblestone	are you talking about pseudo classes for the body zamabe ?
zamabe[cell]	No, I gave you directions to try
Raptelan	Cobblestone: what google hack?
Cobblestone	right, even if I put it all in a contained div, that div will still scroll if someone has a trackpad or scrollwheel
Cobblestone	I'm looking for the article Raptelan
Cobblestone	Raptelan: http://gizmodo.com/5475612/chinese-hack-tracked-back-to-two-universities-and-an-ie-exploit
Cobblestone	google subsequently wants to (has?) banned China from accessing it's server.
zamabe[cell]	Actually they did the opposite
Cobblestone	They made china their server?
zamabe[cell]	AFAIK Google uncensored in China
zamabe[cell]	China's "great firewall" prob didn't like that
Raptelan	Cobblestone: they want to ban china because they were running IE 6 and got bit.  Well that's just stupid.
Raptelan	IE has had tons and tons of exploits over time.
Raptelan	this is nothing new.
Cobblestone	I still don't understand why companies IT can't go and update the browswers
Raptelan	Cobblestone: where I work, there is corporate policy that forbids running anything newer than IE6.
Cobblestone	*company's IT department
zamabe[cell]	Raptelan: what are you saying?
Raptelan	Cobblestone: but we violate policy at our location, and run Firefox and update IE to 8 :P
Cobblestone	how do you deal with the possibility of being exploited like google?
Cobblestone	oh
Cobblestone	hahah
zamabe[cell]	Cobblestone: money
Cobblestone	what's the money?
Cobblestone	their software ?
Raptelan	Cobblestone: well, the corporate policy is to yell at users not to open links in mail, apply security updates maybe, etc.
Cobblestone	you don't think google had this as well?
jedimind	updating several thousand computers at once and making sure that the multi-million dollar in-house intranet that they've had for 10 years still works

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